trained the current generation of hack professors. By now, wernare suffering from several generations of educators who are notrnthemselves well educated, people who don’t know much aboutrnarrything, whose knowledge of literature is abysmal. These arernthe snobs who enhance their own social position by inventingrncritical theories and erecting artificial criteria.rnThis is the background for the creahon of “classism” in literature.rnDissertations had already been done on most of the reallyrngood books, so these people in their drive to be published inrnacademic journals, had to move to the empt}’, quasi-literaryrnbooks.rnTF: What they like, in fact, is academic fiction, which is onlyrnwritten to be analyzed by some graduate student writing a dissertation.rnDK: “Academic” is a better word than literary, because most ofrnthese books are not literar)’ at all.rnTF: Academic writers cannot handle the basics of plot and character,rnmuch less describe the world that any of us has seen orrnexperienced. . . . I suppose it would be bad taste for us to namernnames? Wliat about the middlebrow writers, who tr}’ for a bigrnaudience while pretending to be serious—all those writers whornbecame TV celebrities in the 60’s—Truman Capote, Gore Vidal,rnWilliam Buckley, Norman Mailer . . .rnDK: You call them middlebrow, though many would think ofrnthem as highbrow, but they are not, after all, writing for pure art.rnNorman Mailer—does anyone read him anymore? He alwaysrnseems bombashe, scarcely human. Some of these writers-rnPhilip Roth, for example—begin well, but eventually diey writernfor the erihes, endlessly repeating the things for which theyrnwere originally acclaimed.rnOn a lower level, there are people like Bret F.aston Ellis,rnTama Janawitz, Jay Mchierney. Fortunately, most of this stuffrnwashes out in five years, partly because it’s anh-human: They dornnot like people ver)’ much. Wliy become a novelist if you dislikernpeople, who are the stuff of fiction?rnTF: You must have met these people in college, who spent thernday in a corner of the cafeteria, smoking cigarettes and cacklingrnover how stupid ever)’one else was, while cvcr’one else was havingrna much better time. Those are the people who now controlrnthe literar)’ business.rnDK: In Intensity, I used the phrase “reckless caring” to describernwhat I think life is ultimately all about. When that novel camernout, I knew that I would get flak because the heroine risks herrnlife for someone she doesn’t know. Sonre reviewers said it wasrnimpossible, despite the fact that it happens all the hme in war.rnThen came the news story of the actor Mark Flarmon who,rnwhen he saw an automobile accident, leaped out and rescuedrnkids from a burning car—this was a HolKwood actor who putrnhis own life at risk. Ordinary people do such things thousandsrnof times a day, and yet we hardly ever hear of it in this media-saturatedrnworld.rnTF: It doesn’t fit the media’s view of human nature. Theyrnwould like us to believe that people are only able to do good ifrnthev are controlled by the superior forces of government or arngroup of experts. Many of your most heroic characters, on thernother hand, have had unhappy childhoods.rnDK: I’ve talked about my father a number of fimes in interviewsrnbut never to complain about “poor me, the victim.” In fact,rnthere were two primary influences in my childhood: my fatherrn— a dangerous alcoholic who was later diagnosed as a sociopathrn—and my mother, who was wonderful and kind. Sherngave me strength, but no journalist ever writes about nry mother,rnthough I talk about her as much as about my father. Theyrnare fascinated only by die negative. The fact is that without thernchildhood I had, I might never have become a writer or havernbeen as successful as 1 am. I have nothing to complain about.rnThis centur)’ has produced many great evils, but there is norngreater evil than Freudianisnr. At some point in my career, Irnmade the conscious decision to write anh-Freudiau novels. Irnstarted writing about people who were not what ‘ou would expect,rnconsidering what their childhoods were like.rnYou’d be surprised how reviewers can’t understand what I amrndoing. They want what they call “deep characterization”; inrnother words, tracing motivation to some heinous thing a character’srngrandmother did.rnTF: What they don’t understand is the Christian conceprion ofrnhuman character, that we can succeed sometimes in spite ofrnour backgrounds, so long as there is a spark of faith; that we canrnforever be turning our miserv’ into something usable for ourselves.rnThat is what I see in your best characters, the will to survivernno nratter how weak they think they are or how terrified,rneven if, when they see the words “fear no evil,” they experiencerna shudder of terror, because they fear ever)’thing ever)’ day.rnDK: You don’t become popular today by admitting to being arnChristian.rnTF: The culture is not non-Christian but anti-Chrishan . . .rnDK: . . . while priding itself on being the most tolerant culturernin histor)’. . .rnTF: . . . because ever since Voltaire, tolerance has been definedrnas hating all things Christian.rnIn Dark Rivers of the Heart, ‘ou have portrayed perhaps thernultimate bad father, though this psychotic killer who torturesrnand dismembers women is far from being the most evil characterrnin the novel. That distinction belongs to Roy Miro, the governmentrnagent with a heart of gold.rnDK: The hero’s father actually represents my worst fears of myrnown father. And then I begin to wonder: If government can berna father, what happens when government becomes deranged asrnnry real father was? Roy Miro is my father elevated to the organizationalrnlevel. I lis motivations are just wonderful: He savesrnpeople from dieir unhappiness—although by killing them.rnTF: At least the homicidal maniac father does what he does forrnpure pleasure, like the Marquis de Sade. I’d rather have Sadernrunning our government than the Roy Miros who only wantrnwhat is best for us.rnSpeaking of villains. Fake Memory has a memorable villainrnin die ominously named Dr. Mark Ahriman, the self-centeredrnpsyehodierapist who plants false memories and induces psychosis,rnmurder, and suicide. You obviously don’t think that allrnAPRIL 2000/13rnrnrn