icv is going to be exposed, and when it is, tlie establishment villrnfind that there is nothing behind their commitments. ThernAmerican people don’t understand them, don’t know abontrnthem, and are going to be unwilling to pav for diem with thernblood of dieir sons. One of the stupidest things this countr c-rner did was to miss the opportunity at the end of the Cold War tornget rid of all these commitments which were designed for arnglobal war against a hoshle empire that no longer exists.rn^^T T /”hatever happens to me, thernV V ideas for which we are fightingrnright now are going to triumph.”rnWe’re going to roll up this empire just the way the BriHsh andrnFrench did.rnI’m ver’ sanguine that we’re going to win this battle one day.rn”America First” as a foreign policy is the only foreign policy thatrnthe American people will support over the long haul. You canrnget them ginned up for a crusade against the latest Hitler—SaddamrnHussein in the Gulf—and you can even get them, thoughrnthey were not enthusiashc, to support smashing a little countrv^rnlike Serbia that diey don’t know a thing about except what theyrnread in the papers about them all being horrible people.rnBut I’ll tell you, if you start taking casualties in great numbers,rnAmericans will balk and resist.rnK: Did our choice of Fzola Foster as a running mate indicaternan abandonment of a left-right strategy? A lot of people expectedrnyou to take a labor Democrat.rnB: We were looking over a lot of the labor Democrats, but I didrnmake a solemn commitment that the individual would be prolife.rnSo when we chose Fzola Foster, it vas not an’ abandonmentrnof an effort to reach out to folks like the Antiwar.com folks,rnwho support us primarily on foreign policy.rnK: What did • learn from vour dance with Lenora Fulani?rnB: That alliance was basically a straight political deal where 1rnwould agree to support the campaign reforms that she recommended,rnand I did, and I still do, and she gave me her support.rnBut when the interests of her people in the various states collidedrnwith our interests, one after another, we defeated her peoplernand tossed them out and put ours in. ^’e were determinedrnto get that nominahon. No matter who was opposed to us, wernwould go in and defeat them. Because this is not a game for usrnand we’re not going to put our future in the hands of an’onernelse.rnI think she saw the Buchanan Brigades taking over the w holernpart)’ nationally. So she came to me in New York and demandedrnto be chairman of the national Reform Party. 1 said, “Wouldrnvon like some more corn flakes?” And it was all over. The NewrnYork Times wrote a story on it and did not e en mention die factrnthat she had demanded to be chairman of the party.rnK: Thev also refer to John Hagelin as a physicist.rnB (Laughing): He sa’es a lot in airfares.rnK: When von jumped to Reform, did von have any previousrndiird-part) models in mind?rnB: No. I’ve read a great deal about third parties, and GovernorrnWallace was a friend of mine; I used to go visit him before herndied. And I’m familiar with Norman Thomas and all the rest.rnjAfter I saw that we could move the crowd as well as I did atrnAmes, Iowa, but I simply couldn’t afford running against sevenrndifferent people, it seemed to me that I could not win the RepublicanrnPart)’ nomination. So the cjuestion was, “Are we goingrnto let the things we believe in die for lack of a champion, or arernwe going to go ahead and grab this party and try to make it anrnAmerica First party?” And I said, “Why don’t we just go aheadrnand do it?” At least the American people will have a chance tornote on these ideas.rnWliat makes me cry hopeful is that there was no majority forrnthe war in the Balkans; the Senate barely got a majoritv’ for thernwar in the Gulf NAFTA did not have majority support in thisrncountr)’, and neither did the Mexican bailout.rnNov’, because of the good econom’ and because ever)’bodyrnat least has got a job, even though they’re nervous, people arernsa ing, “Well, don’t rock the boat. Buchanan may be right, butrntilings look like thes’re pretty good to me. I don’t like theserndeals eitiier, but I’ve got a job.” But a crunch has got to come.rnAnd when it comes, the national establishment will find outrnthat underneatii it is an enormous hollow space. The countr)’rnwill not sustain tiie establishment. This whole damn NewrnWorld Order is being put together for a lot of parasites, and thernAmerican people have no emotional interest in it; they tend torngo along with it until they’re going to be asked to make somernmajor contribution to sustain it. The’re going to say, “Wliy dornwe want all til is stuff?” At that point, I think they’ll say, “Whatrnwas diat giu’s name back there? Buchanan.”rnK: In your famous inteniew with Norman Mailer in Esquire inrn1996, Mailer kept urging you to quit the Republicans. The Republicansrnare the Corporation, said Mailer, and they’ll kill yournbefore they’ll let you have the nomination. Was Norman right?rnB: Yup (L.aughter). Norman was right. My problem is tiiat I amrnyer’, ver’ loval to institutions and things I’ve been attached to.rnAnd it’s er)-, cn’ hard for me to break. My sister has no problemrn\’itii that (Laughter).rnK, Some had hojied tiiat the Reform Partv v’ould beeonie arn• broad-based populist movement united around aiitiglobalistrncauses and political reform. Ross Perot might representrnits center, von its right, and someone like Ralph Nader orrn)err l^rown its left. Is that a possibilit^• anymore?rnB: It sure is to me. The whole New Wodd Order; These arernmuch stronger issues with me than they ever were witii Ross.rnRoss was ‘civ’ strong on the trade issue, as I am; but in terms ofrnbringing the troops home and defunding these global institutionsrnlike the IMF and the Wodd Bank, I think I’m stronger.rnI was out there in Seattie, and what }’ou’ve got to realize isrntiiat many on the left think tiie IMP” and the World Bank aren’trngenerous enough. Many of them don’t mind tiie World ‘I’radernOrganization as long as it will do their will. But I’m for bringingrntiiesc things down.rn14/CHRONICLESrnrnrn